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TreasureTheHobo
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Veröffentlicht am Tue, Aug 28, 2007 14:15

Re: Amen Jersey. Amen L2R. JerseyAngel write: How long is this going to continue? Isn't that what is so great about our country? We can have our own opinions and voice them. So let's all agree to disagree. And for that I will thank my son and evry other troop! They can't voice they're opinions like evryone here is doing.



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justyforya
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Veröffentlicht am Tue, Aug 28, 2007 14:09

Falcon- The D.O.D stated the 500+ rusty non-fireable shells we found in 06 were not the WMDs that Bush stated were in Iraq. True in 2002 the GOP Congress gave Bush the Authorization to go into Iraq. Now, [2007] the GOP filibuster any Iraqi pull out vote in the Senate. So why is that? It seems that the GOP don't want the war profiteering to end. I reread UN Resolution 1441, date 11/02/02, and it DOES NOT state that "one nation can use all necessary means to enforce world peace and security", as you cited. That is just TOTAL BS. Blix stated in his January 27, 2003 UN report, "I begin by recalling that inspections as a part of a disarmament process in Iraq started in 1991, immediately after the Gulf War. They went on for eight years until December 1998, when inspectors were withdrawn. Thereafter, for nearly four years there were no inspections. They were resumed only at the end of November last year." ... "Iraq has on the whole cooperated rather well so far with UNMOVIC in this field. The most important point to make is that access has been provided to all sites we have wanted to inspect and with one exception it has been prompt. We have further had great help in building up the infrastructure of our office in Baghdad and the field office in Mosul. Arrangements and services for our plane and our helicopters have been good. The environment has been workable. Our inspections have included universities, military bases, presidential sites and private residences. Inspections have also taken place on Fridays, the Muslim day of rest, on Christmas day and New Years day. These inspections have been conducted in the same manner as all other inspections. We seek to be both effective and correct". YOU SEE UNMOVIC was in Iraq before Bush order them out just before the illegal invasion which the UN DID NOT sanction. Terrorism MUST be fought VIA JOINT INTERNATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT - PERIOD! The US War Profiteering and murdering civilians onl...


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justyforya
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Veröffentlicht am Tue, Aug 28, 2007 14:01

Re: Junie2006 write: the situation n world security has been made worse by the decsion not better. It has also created insecurity in every other country. n cannot blame them. if you were living in another country and America was being bombed by that country how would you feel? We have a duty n responsibiltity to the decisions we made and the consequences it created. Thousands of troops have died and 100,000s of civilians. Each one means someone lost a son, brother, sister, baby. You made the mistake of not just going for the terrorists and extremists but attacking the normal people and demonising the whole Arab/Muslim race. You must not dishonour a nation in its own country or dishonour a woman in her own house. Hurt me and I will hurt you back, and so it goes on. I do not know what you thought you achieved or tried to achieve in Nam The world just saw you Napalming kids. Com or Cap people just to want to live

Junie said it best:


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JerseyAngel
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Veröffentlicht am Mon, Aug 27, 2007 18:56

How long is this going to continue? Isn't that what is so great about our country? We can have our own opinions and voice them. So let's all agree to disagree. And for that I will thank my son and evry other troop! They can't voice they're opinions like evryone here is doing.


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falcon335
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Veröffentlicht am Mon, Aug 27, 2007 14:59

A good article (various sources, I know) is actually on wiki: Legitimacy of the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Along with the U.S. law, U.N. resolution 1441 said one nation can use all necessary means to enforce world peace and security (yes, I know the other side of the argument, too). As for knowing you, no I don't. But I've known many who say and show the same attitudes politically that you've shown here over the years. Typically they've never been in the military or government service and they think that it's always the President's fault for everything. In the end, what matters right now is that since we are over there, our troops need to be supported and allowed to do their jobs. And yes, it is their job to follow the orders of their Commander-in-Chief. If the order is illegal, then Congress would step in. They haven't. Should tell you something right there.


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falcon335
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Veröffentlicht am Mon, Aug 27, 2007 14:36

Actually Justy, my dad did timein the Navy, my mother signed up for the Marines, my brother did 16 and his wife 20 in the Navy, and I'm a 20 year USAF veteran that had the clearance and access to walk into the white house war room during wartime operations. My son in currently serving in Afghanistan. I also completely understand the current strategic and tactical integrated operations plans (i.e.: war plans and option) that this country has in place due to my past positions in the military and from using and teaching them. The President does not have the highest access levels in the country by the way, and I never said I was God. By the way, you might find some interesting reading re: your points int eh Carnegie Report, Jan 04. 6 Jan 04, Nizar Nayuf reports Iraq's WMDs are in 3 sites in Syria. Read the National Archive Electonic Briefing Book No. 80. June 21, 06 Sen. Santorum and Rep. Hoekstra (from and Intel document) state over 500 chemical agent munitions have been recovered since 2003. Look up Iraq's WMD scientists in the crossfire Jan 26 06 Sada says the WND's are in Syria. Kay, (head of ISG) said no large stockpiles of WMD - but they only searched 120 of 130 known sites and no underground sites. Also, that it was possible they'd been moved. August 16, 04 Washington Times article Saddam agents on Syria border Btw, for every stat you can come up with saying there were/are none, I can come up with one saying there were. How about we agree on this: Car bombs and IED's are WMD (they kill multiple people - for that matter a machine gun is a WMD), so the point could be moot, although yes, our politics and inteligence need to be better in tune and more forthcoming in the future. Whether the President should be impeached or not is up to Congress. Oct 2002 - Congress passes a law called Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002, giving the President power to use the military against Iraq.


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TreasureTheHobo
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Veröffentlicht am Sun, Aug 26, 2007 09:22

Justy, you reveal so much about yourself in your posts. Much more than you think. That was in response to your post to Falcon. L2R makes a very, very good point. As many of us have said before, you cannot stop a machine like this once it is already in motion. Finding the best alternative is the way to go. The only thing I have to say about Clinton and Lewinsky is for an educated man and president of the U.S. his judgement was that of a high school sophomore. What that has to do with this I do not know. As to the rest of this, you will never accept anything anyone says. You just make me tired Justy, you don't convince, you alienate. At least me.


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Junie2006
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Veröffentlicht am Sun, Aug 26, 2007 05:12

Look we made the decision and we are there. the situation n world security has been made worse by the decsion not better. It has also created insecurity in every other country. n cannot blame them. if you were living in another country and America was being bombed by that country how would you feel? If the country asked you to choses bewteen them and your homeland, culture and national identity and kinsmen. How would you feel? We created this becasue those who advise govt are more stupid and idealistic than normal people on the ground who could see the consequnces before it begun. We have a duty n responsibiltity to the decisions we made and the consequences it created. Thousands of troops have died and 100,000s of civilians. Each one means someone lost a son, brother, sister, baby. Yes it is personal but war is not a personal decision it has far bigger outreaching goals and consequences than an individual's life. The only goal is the Stability of the World and the countries it It is not to pull out and bugger off, give out the candy and smile and wave a cheery "sorry" as you board the Chinook helecopter. You made the mistake of not just going for the terrorists and extremists but attacking the normal people and demonising the whole Arab/Muslim race. Watched a documentary the other night about Malaysia and the communist rebels whilst under British Rule. As long as the British treated the populace badly and as second class citizens then the rebels were backed by the populace as the only ones supporting them When the British decided against thier superior prejudices to listen to the Malaysians respect n work with them support for the rebels stopped. You must not dishonour a nation in its own country or dishonour a woman in her own house. Hurt me and I will hurt you back, and so it goes on. I do not know what you thought you achieved or tried to achieve in Nam The world just saw you Napalming kids. Com or Cap people just to want to live ...

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justyforya
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Veröffentlicht am Thu, Aug 23, 2007 19:04

Re: Junie2006 write: More people have been killed by the invasion than Saddam managed yo kill over his 20+ years in power.

Not yet Junie but we are on the road to meet that goal. 20% of Iraq's population has now fled Iraq. Mission well on the way of being accomplished.


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justyforya
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Veröffentlicht am Thu, Aug 23, 2007 18:51

Falcon, And finally you stated, "It's people like you that caused the Vietnam vets to be treated like 2nd class citizens, and made sure that they couldn't fire without being shot at first." You know nothing about me, and after the first 'official/major' US military engagement in Ia Drang Valley on November 14-16, 1965, the US mil didn't wait for anything to kick NVA butt. Perhaps you need to read a few history books because you don't know shiit about that or as it appears Nam, or why we could never win there. And don't blame it on the Nam GIs who came back and stated those facts and protested our involvement in Nam. And DAMN any of you who attempt to do the same thing to the IRAQI GIs WHO come back and state that our invasion and occupation is BS and start protesting it. I saw that shiit done to GIs the 1970's and it continues even today. I will have the back of ANY Iraq vet [whether they support or don't support their BS mission in Iraq]. It seems like the majority of the people on this site only support the Vets who believe in Bush's BS. Shame on you'll! The SOF (soldiers of fortune) in Iraq can go F-themselves, they get what the get and I don't give a shiit. Now, Falcon if wish to take the time to address prior posting of mine, I will spend the time to read your comments and to clue you in. Note, I had to break up this reply since I'm limited to 2000 characters.


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justyforya
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Veröffentlicht am Thu, Aug 23, 2007 18:48

Falcon, I have comments on a few of your statements: "You have obviously never felt obligated to serve your country, you just want to blame the President for your failures. You have the right to bitch because people like myself went out there and made sure you were safe while you were bitching." Yeah right Bush lies America into an illegal invasion and occupation and because of my failures I want accountability, great logic there. "Either pick up a rifle and help us fight or get the hell out of our way and support us while we keep your ass safe by doing a job we love to do." Now Falcon very few people I know love killing and war. So the next question I have for you is: are you in the mil or a SOF? I would bet the latter. Let see, pick up a rifle and illegally occupy a nation? Or is that pick up a rifle and create more terrorist? You do know that is what we are doing don't you? Perhaps with all the special Intel you are getting you missed that little gem. All five of our Intel agencies stated that since the invasion and occupation of Iraq we have created more terrorist. You see one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. What did the English call us in 1776? And this gem, "The fact I may have some knowledge of classified information about a subject in no way gives me leave to simply tell you about that information or how I got it, either." So you know more that Bush, or Cheney, or Blix, or Ritter, or the Downing Street memo. I see God Falcon knows it all. I bet you knew enough to op out of the service and join Blackwater or what ever SOF group your in so you can make $150,000/yr +. Just one of the 200,000 SOF the US currently employs in Iraq eh?


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justyforya
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Veröffentlicht am Thu, Aug 23, 2007 18:41

Now Falcon, you know nothing about me, but you act like you knew me all my life. Let me set you straight on a few points. For one thing I read your link about General Georges Sada stating Saddam moved those WMDs. Now perhaps you can reply back with answers to these SIMPLE questions: 1) With all the satellites flying over Iraq and all the special ops going on before the invasion why hasn't anyone in the US government backed up Sada's story? 2) Why hasn't Bush going after those WMDs? 3) On October 8, 2004, both Cheney and Bush stated we now know Saddam did not have WMDs. 4) If Saddam did have those WMDs why [when we initially invaded Iraq] why weren't Delta Force or Special Ops sent in to secure those WMDs. Cheney stated we knew where those WMDs were before the invasion. So if we knew and kept an eye on them, why weren't they secured? 5) Scott Ritter the chief United Nations weapons inspector in Iraq from 1991 to 1998 stated Saddam had no WMDs and what did Hans Blix state on Jan 23, 2003? Something like the UN WMD Inspectors were on the ground in Iraq and they have access to any location in Iraq. Then he asked the Bush administration where the WMDs were. Falcon you stated about these so-called WMDs: "corroborating military intel regrding the flights and truck movements, but also the word of the Chief of the Inspection team", and who is that? Please specify a name and I will spend the time to research it. 6) I imagine you don't believe the Downing Street Memo. And what did that state? Seems like Tony Blair lost his job on that little tidbit of Intel eh? Try googling that dude. 7) Al Qaeda was not in Iraq before the US invasion and US Intel stated about 6 months ago that only 5% of all attacks on US GI's are from Al Qaeda insurgents. Any comments on that one? 8) I believe very little from Fox, CNN, NBC so I don't know why you threw that out.


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justyforya
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Veröffentlicht am Thu, Aug 23, 2007 18:37

It's amazing how people don't read or are incapable of understanding. First TTT, yeah individuals' voicing the truth does make a difference in a free society. In 2003, Bush's approval rating was over 80% and the support of the US invasion in Iraq was about the same. Today, Bush's approval rating is in the low 30 percentile and American's support of our continual occupation of Iraq is about the same. Now why do you think that happened? One clue just-for-you, individuals speaking out and telling the truth - PERIOD! If more people demanded IMPEACHMENT it would occur. How long did it take for the IMPEACHMENT process to begin for Clinton lying about a blow job? Funny, that seemed to occur real quickly eh?


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demoman
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Veröffentlicht am Thu, Aug 23, 2007 12:26

Re: Thunderthighs20 write: Re: demoman write: Funny that thunderthighs dosent want to reply to any comments about her identity either. come on thunder. come clean and fess up. what ya hiding for. we dont bite You may not bite, but there are credentialed liar/s on here who don't care what they say about others, simply because their victim/s don't go along with their lies, or for some other reason displease the credentialed liar/s. Because of the nature of the internet, these postings can be found easily so, unlike some people, others of us are not quite so flippant with what we say which would, though it be either true or false, have the tendency to destroy lives financially, civilly and legally, and our purpose is not to destroy but to confront and attempt to change the actions without resorting to a "scorched earth policy," as it has been called.

I only see one person on here that i am worried about, and that would be you. you have only come on here in hiding to bash people we know . I think you need to take care of yourself and find someone to watch your own back, because the one that your trying to protect may be the one you need to hide from.


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Junie2006
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Veröffentlicht am Wed, Aug 22, 2007 21:23

More people have been killed by the invasion than Saddam managed yo kill over his 20+ years in power. Saddam and others have been breaching human rights and torturing etc etc for ages. America makes friends with any regime which may be to its advantage. In fact America supplied saddam with weapons and support during the problems with Iran. The point of the war is poltical and is about power manourvering in the middle east. No one ever went to war about people. as these are the people who usually get killed and their homes and damilies devastated. Politics makes any man sup with teh devilm if he thought it to be to his advantage.


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JerseyAngel
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Veröffentlicht am Wed, Aug 22, 2007 20:37

Anyway, back to the meaning of this blog...please. Harleyman thank you for honoring the troops we have lost. There are plenty of us on here who have family in the military. Whether they are in Iraq now or not, we are all FAMILY. I personally would like to say THANK YOU to those who serve EVERYWHERE. May God Bless them and their families. Sky how is your boy?


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Thunderthighs20
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Veröffentlicht am Wed, Aug 22, 2007 07:00

Re: demoman write: Funny that thunderthighs dosent want to reply to any comments about her identity either. come on thunder. come clean and fess up. what ya hiding for. we dont bite

You may not bite, but there are credentialed liar/s on here who don't care what they say about others, simply because their victim/s don't go along with their lies, or for some other reason displease the credentialed liar/s. Because of the nature of the internet, these postings can be found easily so, unlike some people, others of us are not quite so flippant with what we say which would, though it be either true or false, have the tendency to destroy lives financially, civilly and legally, and our purpose is not to destroy but to confront and attempt to change the actions without resorting to a "scorched earth policy," as it has been called.


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demoman
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Veröffentlicht am Tue, Aug 21, 2007 19:42

Funny that thunderthighs dosent want to reply to any comments about her identity either. come on thunder. come clean and fess up. what ya hiding for. we dont bite


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demoman
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Veröffentlicht am Mon, Aug 20, 2007 17:26

Re: Treasure_TTT write: You both are intellectually very bright, but your ability to generalize this into the real world seems rather weak.

looks to me like there real world stupid.


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TreasureTheHobo
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Veröffentlicht am Mon, Aug 20, 2007 11:37

I would really like to know how either of you know what any one person here is really doing? I have never once said I am a supporter of the invasion. Not once. All I have said is that I am against the war but I support the troops. Period. You two talk a lot. And for all your talk is anything different? No. And before you say a word, I know you will say that is because too many people like me are apathetic. No, it is because when a monster like this is in motion all the ants in the world can rise up together and still won't stop it. You both are intellectually very bright, but your ability to generalize this into the real world seems rather weak. I am not trying to be insulting. I am saying intellectual ranting is getting you nowhere. What changes have you facilitated? Instead of talking about us, let's talk about the two of you. Justy and Mick. What changes have you made? What have the two of you done? What efforts have you made that actually facilitated any change?? Here is your chance to tell us how it is really done by sharing your experience.


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